Speak. Love.

Speak. Love.

1 Corinthians 13 (MSG)

The Way of Love

13 If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don’t love, I’m nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.

2 If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.

3-7 If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don’t love, I’ve gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love.

Love never gives up.
Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn’t want what it doesn’t have.
Love doesn’t strut,
Doesn’t have a swelled head,
Doesn’t force itself on others,
Isn’t always “me first,”
Doesn’t fly off the handle,
Doesn’t keep score of the sins of others,
Doesn’t revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always,
Always looks for the best,
Never looks back,
But keeps going to the end.

8-10 Love never dies. Inspired speech will be over some day; praying in tongues will end; understanding will reach its limit. We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete. But when the Complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled.

11 When I was an infant at my mother’s breast, I gurgled and cooed like any infant. When I grew up, I left those infant ways for good.

12 We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

13 But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.

I value your honesty and critical review. Please refrain from attacking others.

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46 thoughts on “Speak. Love.

  1. Alan and Randy: although I appreciate the softer tone here, I am going to call out the obvious: this is one intermediate step between Exodus and full inclusion. Why not just go ahead and move there – it would cause less pain for everyone involved.

    • There are a lot of Christians out there who aren’t comfortable with full inclusion. Their theological beliefs don’t allow for it (if I am understanding what you mean by the term “full inclusion.”) For too long, the conversation between the LGBTQ and Christian communities has been about us-and-them; you either agree with me entirely, or there’s no space for you here. I’m hoping that Speak Love will help facilitate conversations across this line, rather than just switching from one side of the line to the other.

        • This is a really good question. I don’t know if I can answer your question in general, since each community and each person is unique. I can only share my own experience of feeling included by the church as a member of the LGBTQ community.

          I personally identify as a Christian and as queer* (see note below). In college, I was part of a campus Christian fellowship (I actually became a Christian during college, largely because of this group). The staff leaders of this fellowship had a “traditional” interpretation of scripture on homosexuality, as did most of the students.

          At first, I didn’t tell my Christian friends about my sexuality. After a year of feeling like I was living a double life, keeping my involvement with each community secret from the other, I decided to come out publicly as both Christian and queer. I expected to lose my Christian friends and be rejected from the fellowship. However, the people in my fellowship (both staff and students) took several steps to make me feel welcomed and loved, including:

          1) Asking questions and listening. Many of my friends and acquaintances asked to meet with me so they could ask questions about my experience. Most importantly, they listened to my story without judging me or arguing with me.

          2) Explicitly inviting me into community. I was prepared to drift away from my Christian friends after coming out. If they hadn’t been intentional about spending time with me and inviting me to be a part of community activities, I would have assumed I was not welcome.

          3) Focusing on Jesus, not on sexuality. The person who was mentoring me at the time focused on helping me grow deeper in faith in whatever ways God was leading, rather than making my sexuality the basis of our time together. In time, we did talk about my sexuality, but only after I had been reassured of God’s unconditional love for me and I had learned to trust God more deeply.

          4) Unconditional acceptance. My Christian community made space for me to be an active member in the community, even after I had come out, without requiring me to have a particular interpretation of scripture. Rather than excluding me until my beliefs aligned with theirs, the community made space for me to interact with God over all parts of my life, including my sexuality, with the support of Christian friends.

          I realize that not all of these points are applicable in all situations. However, my experience gives me hope that we as the church can find a way to welcome our queer neighbors, even if we do not feel prepared for “full inclusion.”

          * A note on terminology: I use the word “queer” as an umbrella term for people with a wide range of sexualities, gender identities, and gender expressions. I realize that the term has been (and still is) used as a slur; however, in the communities I’ve been a part of, the word “queer” is used respectfully.

          • Thank you so much for sharing this. Your perspective is so important to me. I am praying that the Lord will allow me to love like you have been moved and that my son will find people like you and the community you spoke of. Thank you again!

  2. @J’S:
    Maybe they’re not able to. Maybe they want to convince others to advance towards full inclusion. Let’s wait and see, what happens. If it’s less pain, it’s good I guess.

  3. I so so love this version of this message. I want so much for the truth as I see it to be the truth everyone sees, but alas, it’s misty out there until Jesus fully completes the picture. I want to pour out loads of grace over everyone of us who has to wrestle with sexuality and gender. God is with us. Trust him. He’s going to work it out.

  4. But the question is will it be less pain. If the message is still we love you but you should lead a celibate life than it is a very very tiny reduction in pain.

    • I agree. Thankfully there are groups like Dignity USA, which help gay Catholics reconcile their sexuality and spirituality, and live fulfilling lives on every aspect of their existence. Hopefully WeSpeakLove will have a similar vision.

  5. Thank you so much for this beautiful first email. It was a wonderful choice to send this passage, in a gorgeous translation, with few other words. I see this project as something that will develop in response to the community it creates.

  6. I am not sure what to say except – I just really wanted my voice here in this beautiful and scary place. Thank you for taking these steps into the muddy waters of healing for so many “displaced” LGBTQ people who love God and have been asked to put aside their own feelings in an effort to keep the Church comfortable. Now at least we can all be uncomfortable together while we discover what this scripture is telling us.
    “Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.”

    I am a grateful person who loves a powerful God…just like so many others here. Thank you.

  7. I was re-reading 1 John in the MSG translation today, a book that is primarily about love, as well. It was renewing to me. This, too, gives me hope. And what is hope but the gift of a loving God?

  8. I was dissillusionned by the news of Exodus. But have come to believe that the CEO ought to be forgiven for his silence in regards to his sexual orientation. I’m bisexual and am comfortable with it. The homosexual Christians have a harder fight as Christians than do hetrosexuals in a way, however. The Apostle Paul in writing to the Corinthians in one of his two letters states, that it is good for a man to live as a celibate. But if he can,t control his sexual urges than it is better that he marry……a hetrosexual woman because the man is obviously hetrosexual. Now if homosexuals and bisexual men become Christians and as celibates can’t control their sexual urges Than are they TOO to marry despite having no interest in women sexually, in some cases? I’m out of the Evengelical lifestyle so am no longer affected. But what if Mr Alan Chambers becomes a widower and his sexual desires for men becomes strong what will he do? Douglas

    • Hi Douglas – A careful and sensitive reading of the Scriptures does not lead to the automatic conclusion that homosexuality is a sin. There are passages, especially in the “holiness literature” that suggests this conclusion. However, the overall message of Scripture in this matter is far more positive than negative. Biblically, the issue is the goodness of human sexuality and the use of that gift in covenant relationships. For me a more important question is that of the relationship of God in Christ to a human being. In this relationship I see no barriers, even sexual ones.

  9. God knows us individually, even better than we know ourselves. Throwing ourselves on His mercy is the first step. Looking at all people through His eyes is the second. Praying for the highest good for each person we come in contact with is the third. Hatred melts away when we lift someone up to Jesus.

  10. Thank you for the beautiful translation of 1 Corinthians 13. I am praying for the “Speak.Love” mission. Having read the comments from the first post, I’m encouraged by the tone of the conversation. I notice that some of the comments center on the “amount of pain” experienced, though. I don’t think we are ever called to INFLICT pain…..on ourselves, or on others…..but embracing suffering is one of the core elements of walking with Jesus, in my opinion. The evangelical community has often seemed to sweep this part of Christianity quietly to the side. Looking to the lives of the saints who walked this earth before us….and reading about their sufferings…for the glory of Christ!….has often encouraged me in my own struggle with homosexuality. I don’t wish suffering on anyone, but I do know that without some form of “trials & tribulation,” I would never have had the beautiful relationship with Jesus that I love and treasure today. I am a married man (to a wife), and I continue to struggle with homoerotic feelings at times, but it doesn’t define who I am, and I am grateful for having a loving, transparent relationship with a wife who is here to share my burdens, and I hers. I have many single Christian friends (homosexual and heterosexual) who would love to be erotically involved with a partner, but who abstain because they view chastity as a virtue, and believe that the intimate embraces of sexual union are to be reserved for marriage. I respect anyone who sincerely is searching for God’s will, and don’t judge those who choose the path of gay marriage, but I would hope that those individuals would be willing to at least have a period of celibacy while discerning God’s will for them. I am sorry that the Christian community has hurt so many with their hateful stance towards homosexuals. God is good. He is love, and doesn’t turn his back on anyone seeking Him.

  11. I am so glad that there are some who will stick with the Biblical truth, despite the discomfort amongst some folks. I am a female who was involved with women for 17 years. I’ve been out of that lifestyle now for 7. I am so grateful to finally have realized that my salvation & wholeness are not in a romantic relationship, not in sex, not in an earthly identity at all, not in anything but my relationship with Christ. I have studied the Bible on this so very deeply, b/c I really wanted to know the truth, & I really wanted it to be that a gay lifestyle is cool with God. That was not my conclusion, much to my dismay. But now I don’t even care, b/c all I want is to live for Him! To lay down my own will & all that I thought it would give me. I’m happy that there is still support for me & this stance within the Christian community, instead of having to just figure it out on my own b/c everyone else has decided to interpret the Bible to make it fit the lifestyle that they desire. Love! God first, *then* your neighbor!!

    • It is a beautiful testimony that you have found this solid place in God. It sounds like you have done a lot of seeking and exploring which I so admire – I hear your conviction.
      I wonder if this change of position might open up dialog for others navigating sexuality issues that could possibly lead them back to the arms of God and Biblical Truth- and not just to a place that allows them to “interpret the Bible to make it fit the lifestyle that they desire”. Isn’t this new lens that Exodous is taking, about building relationship ( which is often the road to God)? There are many people in different places on their journey to Godliness – and just like you, by the grace of God and the conviction of the Holy Spirit (and a dedication to seeking), they (we) come face to face with God once again. This new language has the potential to open ears that have been deaf to the word of God for a long time. We have a responsibility to one another – to love, as you said. If you love God first, and authentically, how can you NOT love your neighbor – the wounded, the hungry, the widow and the prisoner. It is only by loving God first that we make room for our neighbors in our hearts regardless of their labels ( as modeled by Jesus and His posse) – and can love them right where they are… the way God has done for us.

      I am encouraged to hear your testimony. I am grateful to engage in this delicate and vital conversation.

      • Brad I think you are incorrect about the direction this group is taking. If you believe that this groupbis a place to lead gay people back to Biblical Truth than it is just a watered down version of Exodus and Alan and Randy have been clear that is not the case.

    • Crystie your testimony sounds right out of Exodus. If this group takes that direction it will fail just like Exodus. This is not a rehashing of it. And the supporters continue to insist on it it is a dead end.

      • I don’t read Crystie’s comments as being straight out of Exodus (pun intended). I do acknowledge some similarities to her statements and earlier Exodus testimonies, but it doesn’t sound like she’s trying to change others. It does sound a bit like she’s judging those who are Christian and embracing the homosexual lifestyle (with the comment about “interpreting the Bible to make it fit the lifestyle that they desire”) However, is this site not going to allow any differences in opinion? I think each person needs to be brave to state his/her beliefs in a LOVING manner…..and not be too fearful about sharing what he/she believes to be true…..if it will help express one’s views lovingly or share in that person’s journey. We’re not all going to agree on every thought each visitor to this site posts. I do think Crystie could have been a little more careful to not sound judgmental. Overall, though, I thought she was being very vulnerable and making statements based on love. It can be a very lonely feeling when it seems like the entire culture….including people within your faith community…. is embracing homosexual relationships….when you yourself have come out of that lifestyle because it was unhealthy for you.
        If someone starts posting comments to simply “tell others the way it is,” then I’ll get worried. I think that in these initial stages of responding to posts on wespeaklove.com, some folks (including me!) are going to be less than perfect in the way we express ourselves. We’re all human.

        • Oh, I see a little bit more about what you’re saying. You are concerned that I am judging people who are Christian but still embracing a homosexual lifestyle.

          As I already said, I do think the Bible is the standard & that God’s judgements are made clear within it. No need for me to judge; that’s His job. When I get revelation from God, I always check it against the Bible. If it doesn’t match, I chalk it up to my own wishful thinking. And I have a lot of wishful thinking; I don’t always prefer God’s standards as written in the Bible.

          However, I think that all of us Christians are struggling with sin all the time. I know I am. And I know that when I follow my self-will in the face of contrary instructions from God, I suffer in my life. I am not as close to God; I am more open to spiritual attacks; & so forth.

          In my own experience, when I chose to follow a path of pursuing ssa, I got farther & farther from God. He never left me; His Holy Spirit was sealed within, as is His promise. He kept me alive. But He allowed me to make my own choices, as He does. And my contact with Him & His Truth suffered.

          When I look back on it, I see that I chose my self-will over Him. I’m so grateful for where I am at now & how He wooed me back to Him & gave me double what I left behind.

          BTW, I can see how my comment of “interpreting the Bible to make it fit the lifestyle that they desire” could offend some people. I don’t appreciate the tone of it myself on a second read. I apologize for my wording there & will try to stick to just talking about my own experiences & understanding of the Bible in the future, rather than trying to determine what other people are doing. God sees into all hearts; I do not. I think I was a bit fearful at the time I wrote that about finding human allies on my journey. But I’ve been walking so closely with the Lord since then that I no longer live in that fear. I ask for forgiveness for that careless phrase & purpose to listen more closely to God’s voice in the future & not get so carried away with my own! Humbly, Crystie Muse

      • I can see that I was a little unclear, I was trying do hard to be gentle and clear that I lost clarity… Lol. My point was/is that this dialog has the potential to engage people in a conversation that had been closed to them( us) for do long. In that dialog people may find and discover that this truth may fight them…. Others will not… The goal isn’t getting to the same end as much as it is about letting everyone participate and have the option to choose for themselves. It then becomes about self empowerment whether Christian or non- gay, straight or gender queer or gender normative. A ship as large as ” the church” is not going to turn on a dime. It will take tough conversations and generations of tolerance to right this. I applause exodus for being courageous enough to hold our angst and fear. I am also grateful for your drawing my attention to the importance of clarity

      • Hey, I just got your comments. Sorry to be so delayed in my response!

        I wasn’t part of Exodus, but some of the practices I heard they were engaged in sounded pretty damaging to me. I don’t have the knowledge or the authority to do judge it, & I don’t mean to be condemning to its founders, who may really have wanted to help people. I am just saying that if the rumors I heard were correct, I would be concerned about the means they took towards reorienting people’s sexual attractions.

        I do not judge people for having same-sex attraction. Many of my friends are active in same-sex relationships, & as I said, ssa has been a huge part of my experience since young childhood & could possibly be again. I don’t judge people at all. I leave that up to God.

        I do believe in the Bible as the standard, & I have worked very hard to understand it. I would never claim myself to be an *expert* ~ but I am a committed & fervent student, studying Greek & Hebrew to thoroughly digest what I believe to be God’s love letter to the people He created. And, if what you say, Tim, is correct, that this group is *not* a place to lead people back to Biblical Truth, then perhaps this is the wrong group for me. And that’s okay too! 🙂

        In my studies, I have come to the conclusions that I already mentioned, that I don’t need to repeat. I stand by those conclusions of what I think is God’s standard. But I don’t sit around & condemn people, b/c that is not my job. My job is to continually be working on getting the log out of my eye & sharing the amazing, incomparable love & freedom that I have found in my Lord & Savior, Jesus Christ. I have been wooed away from ssa thru Him, & that is the reality of my story. The life I had before simply doesn’t compare to what I’m experiencing now. My life & my voice belong to Christ; I owe Him everything; & I must be absolutely truthful about my experience & what the source is of the joy unspeakable & peace that passeth all understanding that I dwell in.

        That source is Jesus Christ, as the Word, about whom the whole Bible was written. To deny anything in those pages would be to my peril. And I want to share that freedom with whoever has ears to hear.

        Whoever does not, I bless you too. I believe that we are all sinners, all falling short of the glory of God, & that is why we need His grace. In the name of Jesus Christ, I bless every person on this thread, & I apologize if in my earlier post I sounded like I was judging other people. My prayer is that each person would find their way to Christ, because I believe He is our only salvation. And from there, that we would each surrender our lives to Him & learn to hear His revelation for us, checking it always against His written Word, such that each of us could find not only salvation but total freedom & authority in Christ, as we were always meant to have.

        May His love & light fill the hearts & lives of each & every one of you. And if my views are not compatible with the thrust of this site, I will be happy to look elsewhere for kindred spirits. Even if no human agrees with me, that’s okay, because my home is in Him.

        • Crystie Muse, Please stay with this site. You are the type of Christian I would like to learn from. I have a story to tell but after reading some of the post it makes me want to move on also, but give it a chance. I think God is doing something bigger than normal. He doesn’t need you and me but I would sure like to be used by Him if He allows. I’ll be following your conversation waiting for guidance to tell what He is showing me.

    • The truth will always be painted but we should be of greater joy because the truth about God is not in human power to change. let every man follow not the way that suit him but the way of his creator. with love we can change the world.

  12. On June 15, I was given a revelation from God. (Oh calm down. It happens. Just listen.) Jesus Christ very clearly told me that gays are just as much His children as straights, and that He is extremely displeased with His children (Christians, members of His body) for rejecting, insulting, and ostracizing gays who have accepted His salvation and have become part of His family. He then cited several verses in the bible in which He has taught this very thing, but which have been glossed over or just ignored by His church over the years. Christ is yearning for His children to stand together. Even gays who are not in the family of Christ fall under His direct command to love our neighbors as ourselves and to not persecute but witness His message of love.

    I was reeling from this message – I’m a 54 year old Southern Baptist minister who has lived my whole live in the Conervative South. We just don’t do that kind of thing around where I grew up! Homo’sexyulls are just flat wrong. God might love them (might) but we shore as heck ain’t supposed to mingle with them! It jest ain’t dun!!

    But I am before anything else a lover and follower of God, and when He says so clearly that I (we) am to embrace my gay brothers and sisters and to witness His salvation to any other gays who may be interested in learning of it … I honestly have no choice. So I began seeking information about “Christian gays” and learned there are so many who are seeking acceptance in their own church, but who are tossed aside and shunned. Hearts are broken -again, and the love of Christ is thrown into the trash by those of us who should be lights to the world of His love. I was shamed and angry at the lies I had so readily swallowed. I also ran across, “coincidentally,” the apology and dramatic actions of Alan Chambers and Exodus Int. Clearly, God is waking His church and moving us to bring together all our family members. I’m not sure how to progress, but I’m open and ready to serve my God and my neighbor.

  13. What we must remember is the Bible says “Love your neighbor as yourself” and “Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul and mind.” You cannot do one without the other. We also must remember that we cannot tell non-Christians they need to quit sinning any particular sin. We cannot judge them because they are living a non-Christian life. All we are supposed to do is tell them about Jesus. That is it. Now what about Christians that live in sin. We sometimes overlook the boy and girl having sex outside of marriage. But a boy and a boy having sex outside of marriage, we shame them. The Bible says they are equal sins. We are supposed to pray for them and if we have a good relationship with them, when God allows, we can talk to them about their sin. But remember not to take the splinter out of another persons eye when there may be a board in our eye. We must live our lives as an example of Christ. That means we must show grace. God changes hearts. Not us unless He uses us that way. How they choose to live is up to them. But, there are consequences, good or bad, for every choice in life we make.

  14. I honestly just have a question. Well, a lot, but here’s one that I wonder about a lot. All this information is very new to me. I only started looking into it about a year ago. I left the bisexual lifestyle about 5 years ago with God’s help only because I was too scared to ever talk about what I had hidden for so long. I understand how one feels to be in or grow up in church with all this stuff inside you. but my question is this: what do you tell a homosexual person who wants to come to God? How do you not hurt them, but still tell them the truth? I don’t ever want anyone to feel as scared as I did, but neither do I want them to feel so alone amongst “Christians.” Do you just wait for them to see it themselves or for God to speak to them? Or is it okay to say something. To say that even though you (and God) love them you and God disagree?

    • I beleive that if “any” person desires to know how to be saved, it’s no different than sharing what it takes for anyone, no matter the sin. I’ve been thinking about this lately and it’s the Gospel message about Jesus dying on the cross in our place for all our sins; we have “all” sinned and fall short and need this. First it’s important to settle this issue; God will take care of the rest. If I waited till I resolved all my sin issues; I’d never become saved by grace. I’m recently reading a book by Joe Dallas titled “Desires in Conflict” and have read several other Christian books dealing with the subject to include some of Alan Manning Chambers books. These books help us to understand more about the subject from a physcological (spelling?) level and with Biblical perspective. I also thinks that’s one of the key elements to remember; it’s helping those people who want to be saved and to grow in their relationship with God and live the way God wants them too and to be patient because each of us grows at our own pace. Offering help to those who desire help is a good thing and one ought not to fear this while respecting the decision for those who choose to live differently. It’s not so much about gay or straight, but about what it takes to be saved in the first place. The more we understand about the origins of homosexuality and how it fits in with the Bible, the better off we are. God says we were all born into a sinful nature; so weather we are born this way or not is really a mute point isn’t it? So often people blend the Old Testament of “Justice” with The New Testaments “Grace”. Jesus died for all our sins and I don’t beleive it’s biblical to persecute, bully or beat up those who we may not agree with; this goes both ways too by the way. I’ve been a Christial now for over 21 years now and I’m not perfect, but I’m growing in my faith and I’m learning that there are more people in the church who are understanding of this subject than people realize. I just wish more Pastors would actually address the subject and not be afraid of it; more people wouldn’t feel so “different” and often times like they are the “hopeless” one’s doomed to live a lie. I’ve been celebate these 21 years and even though I have my share of temptations, live overall is much happier and fullfilling. More churches need to step out there and offer help “to those who want it”; we are not hopeless and we didn’t choose to have same-sex-attractions; however we can choose to act on them or not, that is up to each of us, heterosexuals or not. I still have friends who do not want to change and guess what, we are still friends and I respect their choice.

  15. I like the Message version of Scripture used here. Brings a ton of clarity to what it means to love. Reminds me of passages that say, “Love covers a multitude of sins,” and the ones that say, “His kindness leads us to repent.” I pray we Christians learn to truly be kind, loving ,& respectful as you and Randy have demonstrated to me. These things arent about condoning but respecting other human beings where they are at.Thx for sharing.

  16. Thanks for all of your comments here, friends. I am sorry it has taken me so long to join you. Keep interacting. This is what all of us need–to listen and truly hear one another. Pray for me as I SLOWLY keep taking baby steps towards this new uncertain endeavor called “Speak. Love.” The last thing I want to do is force something God doesn’t want or need, cause more anxiety, create a split screen FoxNews debate. It is time for peace and rest as we get to know one another beyond what’s on the surface. Anyone game?

    • I am covering this Ministry and everyone who is participation g and Sharing and asking God to lead every careful step.

    • I appreciate your patience! As excited as I am about this site, and as much as I want more updates, it makes sense to me that you are taking time for “peace and rest” in the midst of these baby steps. You are still in my prayers!

  17. Why have my 2 previous comments been removed with no warnings or explanations? I’ve only tried to give my perspective on an issue that is concerning thousands of Christians. If this is the kind of dialogue you want to start with homosexual people, then good luck! You need to first listen if you want any kind of common union among Christians.

    In any case, I’m committed to spreading my opinions as a gay Christian who is searching for God and has good will – even if I have to do it on other venues. May the light of reason and the power of love let us get together and find the truth.

      • I have a little bit of trouble gathering all this in here. I am only seeing some comments in long straight lines so it is hard to decifer what has been said. Please forgive me if I repeat any thoughts already engaged.
        Then thing that resounds in my heart and mind is the verse,
        Let this same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus. That is the first thingni think of when I think of ‘speak Love’.
        Jesus didn’t condemn, he didn’t put others down, he didn’t make them feel less important, he was for ‘equal treatment, he came to save not destroy, but he did convey the need for change. Change from within, a rebirth of spirit, pouring over into the way we respond and speak to others.A rebirth that says we must be made anew, reborn wand of the spirit first, then change comes in behavior, thinking, conduct, perception.
        If I was worth enough for Jesus to die for, then there is no one that is beyond redemption, or the grace of God